overheating problem

[papa karl]

Hello y'all!!!

Thanks for all the info so far(lots of info here) but I think I'm too stupid to find the exact info I think I need. My son has a '08 LT(2.2L ecotec) with 83K miles with I think a bad water pump. The water temp will go to 187 at idle, then higher as I go up the street (I stopped at 197). The heater will work for about maybe 10 minutes, then cold air, and weird rattling noise (????) from what could be the heater core inside. Last night he brought it home in "cooling mode" and water was boiling or bubbling in the reservoir. There doesn't seem to be a leak but there wasn't any water then last night. So far no CEL's or other weird noises, the car runs great. My first question is shouldn't there be water coming out the engine block while the car is hot? And why are there so many interesting air purging techniques out there? I can't imagine any idiot engine designer would have a job for too long with that crap!!! And do I have to remove the exhaust manifold to replace the water pump, REALLY???? And a tool to hold the timing chain?


Thanks in advance

 

[YelloEye]

Temperature for this car is fine to 210, I've seen 220 before with no ill effects. 240 is my shut down line personally, but I've never seen her get above 230.

Sounds like you've got air in the system with the best working intermittently. It should burp itself to some extent, though you can help by squeezing the rad hoses to get the bubbles back into the tank.

Where is this rattling noise coming from?

 

[papa karl]

Thanks so much for the reply!!! And Merry Christmas!!!

Well now I think I'm pissed. The normal operating temp on this engine is somewhere around 240?????, out of a 4 banger??? DANG!!!!!

OK, my temp went up and up past 240, so I shut her down. And the heater core made that rattling/bubbling/weird noise thing again, and something smells hot!! Each time I put water in after a cool down, I get vent heat, mostly at idle, then no heat when I'm driving, and somehow I have to put more water in. Oh yeah, both radiator hoses seem very warm, I can hold them for 5 or so seconds. I guess the water temp sensor is deep inside somewhere cuz the engine aint hot! To me, that screams water pump! What is it about Chevys and their cooling problems?

So how do I bleed the system again? Squeezing the hoses just overflows the tank. I'm not pouring water in the top radiator hose (or engine block)!! Should I drive up on ramps to tilt the engine (like my Chevy Lumina)? Should I take out the bottom water pump bolt (????) to check water flow? And why is this so hard to figure out?

So how do I know if there is air in the system? How do I check the water pump? Why isn't my upper radiator hose hot as <<bleep>> and hotter than the lower hose? Did I miss the FAQ section that covers this or.... WTH??

Thanks again!!

 

[YelloEye]

Merry Christmas to you too Karl!

Nooo. Normal op temp is 180-200. I've seen higher doing back to back drags or autocross runs though.

You say something smells hot, are you smelling antifreeze in the cabin?

If the core is making burbling noises that seems to me that air is in it and fluid is moving. If you're having to add fluid that means it's slowly burping itself, eating it, or pissing it out. Oil seem OK?

The most effective way I've found to ensure your system is completely burped requires an air compressor, counter intuitive I know. This works best when the thermostat is open, anything above 150 will do.

Anyway, that thin straight metal pipe that runs over the intake manifold. Disconnect the drivers side clamp at the pipe/rubber hose point.
Get a container you can use as an overflow and put the tube so it empties into it, 2 L soda bottle works great.
Finally take an air chuck and apply pressure to the rubber hose side, this will force air into the OEM coolant tank which should push fluid into the system. When the coolant cap starts releasing pressure you can let off the air a bit to keep it from venting.

That pipe is the high point in the system so all your air bubbles should come out there. See below.

 

[papa karl]

Thanks YelloEye again for the reply.

To cut a short story long!!, What the hell?!?!?!?!

Took off the hose at the engine block, and water (no air) came out until the radiator overflow tank was almost empty. Got the 2 liter bottle and a bicycle pump and pumped away...., after refilling more than 2 gallons, I figured there aint no air in there.

Started the car, and some water and air bubbles came out for about 5 minutes (at the same slow pressure as before), then nothing (no water, bubbles)!! I felt there should be more water coming out at this point. Seems there should be some kind of water pressure when the temp shows 160, shouldn't there? Got to pumping again, and water came out without bubles.

The water in the 2 liter bottle smells like gas!!! Did a comression check and got around 150, 120, 150 and 150! OH CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Car runs great for a mild head gasket problem, seems I'm leaking from #2 into the cooling system, or which is it? Counting from the driver, its 3, but 2 from the passenger, but doesn't matter, does it?

So now I got two Chevys with the same problem! While the car is running, I got air from a cylinder getting in the coolant. What is it with me and Chevys?

So for the water pump, shouldn't there be pressure all the time on that overflow pipe at the block? I took off the upper radiator hose while running, and no water. I figure if the pump is working, there should be something coming outa there. Does these pumps fail before 83K. I saw a guy somewhere
say you gotta change them at 60K. I'm hoping this aint right!! Who makes this engine, isn't it european (swedes)?

 

[YelloEye]

It's a Suzuki motor IIRC. The 1st cyl is the one closest to the front of the motor, usually the serpentine belt is in the front. So in our case it's the passenger side.

I'm not too sure about water pump longevity. I would think there should be water moving any time the thermostat is open.

 

[papa karl]

Well...... Happy New Year guys!!

So my car problem is a blown head gasket!!! The car runs GREAT!!!, but we got air bubbles (that smell like raw gas) in the radiator overflow tank. The son's 97 Lumina had the same problem and the junk yards are full of them, almost all with overheated engines. From looking around on the web, I found if there is any air in the system, the cooling system goes down hard.

Hey, do this guys!! If anyone feels they have a water pump problem, just remove the thermostat and start the engine. Remove the small overflow hose right at the engine block (at the upper radiator hose), that runs back to the overflow tank. Since we don't have to wait till the car is hot, there should be about a 6 inch stream of water coming out of the tube. This should prove that there is water pressure from the pump. Since mine had air from a broke head gasket, a fully working engine may be more than 6 inches, I dunno. With my thermostat in, I barely got anything coming out. Do this before you attempt to do anything with the water pump. Water pump anything is a huge PAIN THE COMPLETE ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I'm more pissed than anyone cuz it took two days and $85 and I still had the same problem (and the damned dealer wanted to do the same thing again). Removing the thermostat takes about less than 30 min. Need 10 mm and about a foot long extender and voila!!!!

Oh yeah!!, I ran the car without the thermostat, and with water only for about 45 min around the 'hood. This morning was 40 degrees, I got heat and the max engine temp was 167 (and I didn't get that gurgling/bubbling/whatever noise from the heater core).

I guess, don't ever think there isn't a problem cuz the car is running great. Mine runs SMOOTH!!, and good power but....

Sooooooooooo, I'll be outa here for a while to do a head gasket. I hate working in the cold!!!!!!

Thanks for all the help

 

[YelloEye]

Ouch. At least you've figured it out.

 

[papa karl]

Almost finished but got to the chain tensioner. Other sites show using pliers to twist and set the piston back in place, I just twisted mine by hand. Should this be replaced with the new style?

After installation, I set the tensioner (which was a distinct click), then the chain tightened just a little bit. I turned the motor over a couple times but the chain was nowhere tight. Took apart and cleaned the tensioner and noticed after adding oil, the piston wouldn't go down at all. Then, it made sense how this thing works. I don't know how long it takes to pressurize while the motor is running, but I wasted about three hours "spinning my wheels in the mud" on this.

Other sites talk about how bad this tensioner is but do I need to go to the new style, if there is one, or a new one? Mine seem to work just fine.

 

[YelloEye]

The new style is shaped like this. It's recommended.